Bad Behavior During the Shutdown

[12Seven95]

Are good overlanders going to pay the price for bad behavior during the shutdown?

https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2019/01/death-valley-national-park-continues-have-issues-bad-behavior

 

[Dilldog]

I would put money on it...

 

[Nomadik Nova]

I concur.... bad apples cause issues for ALL of us!

 

[Jrahn0822]

I agree that overlanders and those who actually respect the outdoors are definitely going to feel the pain from those who are abusing the parks. It sucks to see people going to these beautiful places and having a complete lack of respect.

 

[James Deaton]

I would wager to say there is bad behavior all the time, but it’s likely a bit worse when enforcement isn’t around.

James

 

[CR-Venturer]

When the cat's away, the mice will play, as the saying goes.

I know that OB members will be doing their part to counteract this. I hope all of you guys in the US of A will be doing your best to educate the fools out there causing problems. It may not help, but sometimes a little heart to heart about why we need to respect wild places and keep access open can help change people's ways.

 

[rgk401]

Maybe they didn’t know it was shut down. I just realized that the park in the area I’m from is shutdown, I thought it was open and drove 3 hours just to see the area. Gate was open but when I went to the ranger station a note was on the door. If I would not have stopped I’d be just like the people in the link

 

[Ben Cleveland]

Maybe they didn’t know it was shut down. I just realized that the park in the area I’m from is shutdown, I thought it was open and drove 3 hours just to see the area. Gate was open but when I went to the ranger station a note was on the door. If I would not have stopped I’d be just like the people in the link

I would bet that even if you hadn't stopped, you would NOT have fallen into the category of the people that have been abusing and damaging things.

I think the big problem is not people going into the national parks through non-closed access points. Based on what I've heard, some of the national parks have left some access points open. The issue is people cutting locks or chains for areas that are closed off, and even worse, people trashing closed off areas, or destroying and trashing natural areas that were NEVER open to access.

 

[Kenstaroni]

That article is a nothing burger. They camped somewhere they shouldn't...let alone on a bunch of rocks that have been there for millions of years....give me a break. Did they leave the site clean? If so I've got no issues. Someone did doughnuts in some sand in the desert...they probably just ruined the entire ecosystem for generations....whatever.

 

[Anak]

That article is a nothing burger. They camped somewhere they shouldn't...let alone on a bunch of rocks that have been there for millions of years....give me a break. Did they leave the site clean? If so I've got no issues. Someone did doughnuts in some sand in the desert...they probably just ruined the entire ecosystem for generations....whatever.

+1

If that is the worst they can come up with I would say things are going pretty well.

I think it is telling that they don't have any pictures of real problems. And the excuse given is pathetic. "Lack of resources"? Really? None of these rangers have a cell phone? I am not buying it.

 

[obrianmcc]

Are these people legally camped? ... or are they not? ... We don't actually know due to the lack of factual information as seems to be the norm in all of these postings. I'm sure there are some abuses being committed, but most of this seems more like politically charged rhetoric.

 

[Ursus]

That article is a nothing burger. They camped somewhere they shouldn't...let alone on a bunch of rocks that have been there for millions of years....give me a break. Did they leave the site clean? If so I've got no issues. Someone did doughnuts in some sand in the desert...they probably just ruined the entire ecosystem for generations....whatever.

National Parks are preserved areas for a reason. If these individuals traveled off from a designated trail then it is possible they did destroy biological soil. Is the entire biotic ecosystem destroyed? No. However, if 1 out 100 people start to deviate from the designated trails then it is only a matter of time before areas start to get destroyed.

If you want to go out and do some primitive camping and traveling there are millions of acres out west to go and do that.... just don't start doing that in the National Parks.

 

[MEB77]

The artical has a lack of realm info. But if they are camping in areas they should not be camping in it is something that will come back and bit us at some point. However in was in Yosemite in early November and while there I saw plenty of people littering and wondering off the trails. Some people just dont get it, dont care or dont think the rules apply to them. This happens even when the park is open. I would like to think that most rangers understand that most of the people are good and dont cause damage and that no matter what there will be some bad apples. But that those bad apples are offset by those who clean up and pack out more trash then they bring and cleaning up trails ect. I have seen stories in the news about people cleaning up national parks as a result of the trash being left so we have to hope those stories get publicized and when we see them we need to spread them so people see that people are trying to clean up and leave the parks clean.

 

[spartancrating1]

Oh the sensitivity runs deep amongst this group.. lol. The picture doesn't show anybody damaging anything. To be honest if this picture is going to disturbingly trigger you then you need a new hobby. They aren't burning tires or shooting at abandoned refrigerators then I could care less.. I'd say I have about 15 minutes before some triggered ecowarrior gives me the beloved and oh so familiar core value speech LOL [emoji2958][emoji850][emoji55]

 

[spartancrating1]

Ouch.. you got me.. Sad emoji..[emoji853] LOL..

 

[spartancrating1]

But for the record I could care less. I have more to worry about then some overlanders unknowingly camping out of bounds. Guess it's time to call the Taco swat to shut the party down!

 

[CR-Venturer]

Much as I am aware that people sometimes grossly exaggerate the "damage" that may be caused by things like out of bounds camping, the fact of the matter is that there are special interest groups out there that are gunning for us and our hobby. If they had their way, people like Sierra Club would shut every wild place off from all human access forever and pat themselves on the back over their $5 Starbucks lattes. It behoves us to obey the rules and urge others to do the same if for no other reason than the fact it counteracts the false narratives these special interest groups try to put out about us.

If we as a group, both Overland Bound membership and the greater 4wd community at large, are consistently seen cleaning places up, respecting the rules, treading lightly, leaving it better than we found it, etc. it can help sway people over to our cause and gives us the moral high ground, as it were, in the fight to keep wild places open to us.

 

[spartancrating1]

For the record I am an avid hunter and I hate when trash people trash the land. I make it a point at least once a week to go out and haul out the shit they leave behind. Yep with garbage bags, a rake and some gloves I go and pick up after these bums and pack their shit out in my $70k vehicle. I do quite a bit of upland game hunting and EVERY time I pick up spent shotgun shells and casings while hiking around. As inconvienent as hauling that shit around is I still do it. The point I'm trying to get across is Dont talk about it..Be about it. Dont be this online watchdog snitch flapping your gums about what should be done, just go and do something about it. Put your money where your mouth is. Funny thing is I am an avid hunter and fully support our 2nd Ammendment rights. On that same note I make it a point to PHYSICALLY-IN PERSON go up and roast shitheads out shooting up TVs and other trash appliances. At that point I educate them on how their bad practices give the "granolas" ammo in their fight to keep us off the land. Believe it or not hunters are some of the biggest conservationists out there. Taking long distance photos of some people overlanding then posting it online to talk about doesn't do jack except give the keyboard warriors something to talk and feel high and mighty about. As a "responsible" part of the overlanding community the photographer should've went up and asked if they knew that they were set up in a restricted area if indeed it was. Chances are they didnt if it wasnt posted and most of these areas lack a data connection so you could check online and see. At the end of the day I feel there should be more action and less talk.

 

[CR-Venturer]

I 100% agree with you that we need to be about it and not just talk about it. That's why I sling up my "poor man's trasharoo" pretty much every time I go out in the back country and end up hauling out tons of trash, 98% of it not mine. I really think if every member of OB made it a point to do this, we could make a significant contribution to the cause of keeping wild places open and trash free.

BTW, I should add I'm a Canadian gun owner and am totally in support of the 2nd amendment in the USA. I only wish we had a similar provision here.

 

[spartancrating1]

Lol. Thanks. The way this country is heading at this moment we might be there soon. Anyhow talking politics on OB is no-no so we will leave it at that. Safe travels mate!