5th Gen 4R - Suspension choice help King vs OME BP-51 - Starting build

[JoshMTN4R]

RESULT - Chose to go with Old Man Emu - BP-51

Hey there everyone in Rig Q&A.

I've been going back and forth on making a selection on my suspension choice. I'm torn between two kits, ideally I'll be making a final decision and ordering a set by the end of the week, any advice, experience or recomendations are welcome.

I initially was 100% sold on Kings, but then a local shop recommended I consider the BP-51's also, so now I'm considering both.

Build I'm planning:
- Suspension + UCA upgrade
- 285/70/17 LT tires + 1 spare on swing (59lb per tire) = 295 lb total

Armor & Cargo
- Front bumper + Winch = 220 lbs
- Sliders = 130 lbs
- Skids = 100 lbs
- Roof Rack = 93 lbs (empty) + ARB awning
- Rear bumper + tire swing (with tire) + jerry cans (empty jerrys) = 190 lbs

733 lbs total, not including tires

Suspension kits I'm considering are:

1. King Suspension (medium or heavy springs) - American
+ a company that specializes in suspension, high quality engineering, race winning suspension
+ highly recomended by friends to run with this set
+ rebuildable, dependable, can be tuned with adjusters
+ Perspective here at the 12:00 minute mark on the comparrison
+ not their first bypass shock, multi generation, engineered

2. Old Man Emu - BP-51 (medium or heavy springs) - Australian
+ local shop recomended these to me over the kings
+ built by ARB - reputable company, great track record also
+ can be highly tuned with dual adjustments
- first generation bypass suspension from ARB, recent offering in the market
- This guy says he likes them alot but there are some nagging issues

Goals: Good performance on medium-long trails, moderate-heavy weight performance, long lasting and rebuildable. Okay with some onroad comfort loss, adjustability will go with either set selected.

Is there anyone out there that has experience with both that might make my decision a little easier here?
Which kit would you go with?
Concerns?

Thanks for any help in my decision making folks. Will be watching this thread throughout the week.

 

[Ben Cleveland]

You seem to have thoroughly thought through the weight addons for your rig which is great. However you don’t mention your goals for the suspension upgrade. Are you just trying to fit the larger tires? Using OEM rims or aftermarket? If aftermarket, what offset? What are your goals for the rig overall? Mobbing in the desert requires a different suspension setup than rockcrawling. Practically, overlanding often includes very little of either end of that spectrum, and the practical need for suspension upgrades for overlanding is often much milder.

I’d suggest you look into Dobinson as well. Australian company that just started offering products in the US a year or so ago. They’re still a bit new to the US market but they’ve been an Australian staple for quite a while. They have a ton of different height and load rate options for springs, for different loads over OEM, at varying they have a remote reservoir shock option as well as long travel shock and spring options.

I found them to be really great to deal with. Very responsive and helpful when choosing a product, and shipped quickly with no lead time. Mike, the US sales rep in Florida is active on the forums, and very responsive to questions. I was even able to call their office at 4pm on a Friday, and get some questions answered about the ball joints they sent with the UCA’s I ordered from them, all within a few minutes.

T4r.org has a long thread going in the 5th gen forum for all their different offerings.

 

[JoshMTN4R]

You seem to have thoroughly thought through the weight addons for your rig which is great. However you don’t mention your goals for the suspension upgrade. Are you just trying to fit the larger tires? Using OEM rims or aftermarket? If aftermarket, what offset? What are your goals for the rig overall? Mobbing in the desert requires a different suspension setup than rockcrawling. Practically, overlanding often includes very little of either end of that spectrum, and the practical need for suspension upgrades for overlanding is often much milder.

Thanks for the thorough response Ben, goals for the suspension upgrade are in order of priority here:
1. Maintain a comfortable ride quality off-road (not too stiff) - Comfort for the family on long rugged trails and moderate obstacles.
2. Allow for a slightly larger than stock tire to improve ground clearance. (285/70/17)
3. Allow increased weight capacity for armor and cargo add-ons and passengers (2 adults, 2 children under age 10 + 1 dog)

Getting to remote locations to camp with the family is the direction. I'm not planning any extreme rock crawling, or mobbing the desert at all. I realize I could get away with the stock suspension, but adding cargo and larger tires and cargo capacity will overload those from what I'm reading.

 

[Ben Cleveland]

Thanks for the thorough response Ben, goals for the suspension upgrade are in order of priority here:
1. Maintain a comfortable ride quality off-road (not too stiff) - Comfort for the family on long rugged trails and moderate obstacles.
2. Allow for a slightly larger than stock tire to improve ground clearance. (285/70/17)
3. Allow increased weight capacity for armor and cargo add-ons and passengers (2 adults, 2 children under age 10 + 1 dog)

Getting to remote locations to camp with the family is the direction. I'm not planning any extreme rock crawling, or mobbing the desert at all. I realize I could get away with the stock suspension, but adding cargo and larger tires and cargo capacity will overload those from what I'm reading.

Man, if those are your goals, first congrats because they’re great. Basically the same as mine and many others here. Second, while everything you’ve listed you’re going to do to the rig is awesome, you DONT need to do all that. Tires, skids/sliders and suspension upgrade will get you guys out there in good form at least to start off. Practically, your total list easily tops 10K worth of upgrades, and you’re talking about doing 1500-2k worth of suspension on top of that. I would strongly suggest you do the basics, spend 1500 on a suspension setup, 1000 on sliders and skids, and maybe some on tires if you feel like it. Then get out there, do something mild and start getting the feel for how you guys like to spend time outdoors.

You’ll find the other addons you’re thinking of will very quickly become obviously practical, or completely pointless. And you’re not going to know that mix of important and pointless until you start using your rig in the manner you’re planning.

All that aside, you’re not going to go wrong with any of the suspension choices you mentioned. Fox, King, Icon, Dobinson, OME, and toytec are all popular brands and it seems you’re looking at the nicer end of the offerings. Your goals are pretty basic, as long as you choose the correct springs for the weight you’re adding, you’re going to have a very nicely upgraded system with any of these choices.

 

[Boort]

@JoshMTN4R

Hey there everyone in Rig Q&A.

I've been going back and forth on making a selection on my suspension choice. I'm torn between two kits, ideally I'll be making a final decision and ordering a set by the end of the week, any advice, experience or recomendations are welcome.

I initially was 100% sold on Kings, but then a local shop recommended I consider the BP-51's also, so now I'm considering both.

Over the last 6 months I've been doing the same research. Saw the Filthy video, was very impressed by the explanations and thought behind it. I don't think you can got wrong with either King or OME BP51's. I went with the BP51's

Just as important as the parts you pick out of the options above, if you are not doing the work yourself, FIND A GREAT SHOP with experience in doing this upgrade. On your 4runner, with the parts you choose. Get a shop where they handle everything from the parts sale, suspension + UCA installation, through to the full alignment. Makes things much smoother if any snags are hit. Single point of contact, no finger pointing, and one shop's reputation on the line.

goals for the suspension upgrade are in order of priority here:
1. Maintain a comfortable ride quality off-road (not too stiff) - Comfort for the family on long rugged trails and moderate obstacles.
2. Allow for a slightly larger than stock tire to improve ground clearance. (285/70/17)
3. Allow increased weight capacity for armor and cargo add-ons and passengers (2 adults, 2 children under age 10 + 1 dog)

My Upgrade was done in early June, since then been camping a few times including Ouray during FJ Summit weekend. The experience so far with the 2006 4runner running BP-51's, OME springs, SPC UCA's on BFG KO2 275/70/17 checks all of the boxes above. (On my rig going to KO2's @ 285/70/17 would have required much more work to fit so I went with the 275's, not to mention will not fit in stock spare location and I did not want it inside or on the roof). If you are not doing all of the upgrades at the same time plan to get medium springs now. Then as you add on the bumpers (winch, swingouts....) switch to heavier springs or #1 will go out the window till the weight is added.

Boort

 

[JoshMTN4R]

TL:DR - I've chosen to go with the shop recomendation and will be adding the OME - BP-51's to my 4R.

Man, if those are your goals, first congrats because they’re great. Basically the same as mine and many others here. Second, while everything you’ve listed you’re going to do to the rig is awesome, you DONT need to do all that. Tires, skids/sliders and suspension upgrade will get you guys out there in good form at least to start off.

Thanks man, yeah, I am definitely very thankful to be in a position to consider some of these premium upgrades in the firstplace, no lack of gratitude there. I've gotten out on some trails since buying the rig in May, basic forest roads up here in Washngton, nothing to technical yet. Some of the trails I'm planning next year will require some of these upgrades, however. I started planning tires and went with the Off-Road model knowing I wanted to replace suspension.

All that aside, you’re not going to go wrong with any of the suspension choices you mentioned. Fox, King, Icon, Dobinson, OME, and toytec are all popular brands and it seems you’re looking at the nicer end of the offerings. Your goals are pretty basic, as long as you choose the correct springs for the weight you’re adding, you’re going to have a very nicely upgraded system with any of these choices.

Yeah! - That's what I finally came to the conclusion on yesterday, I just got stuck in analysis paralysis, I'm the type of person that has to research anything I'm interested in down to the molten core to make absolutely sure I'm certain before I leap. - They're all great systems and lots of all of them in circulation. Overall, I think you're correct, anything I choose will perform pretty well, talking to people online has helped tremendously figure out the build path and goals I'm running towards.

I'll start with the medium springs and replace with heavy once I add any more weight to the vehicle as needed. I appreciate the help Ben, definitely helps me to have a place to bounce ideas and get some feedback on this stuff.

@JoshMTN4R
Over the last 6 months I've been doing the same research. Saw the Filthy video, was very impressed by the explanations and thought behind it. I don't think you can got wrong with either King or OME BP51's. I went with the BP51's

Just as important as the parts you pick out of the options above, if you are not doing the work yourself, FIND A GREAT SHOP with experience in doing this upgrade. On your 4runner, with the parts you choose. Get a shop where they handle everything from the parts sale, suspension + UCA installation, through to the full alignment. Makes things much smoother if any snags are hit. Single point of contact, no finger pointing, and one shop's reputation on the line.

Yup, I think you nailed what I've realized in the past 24 hours or so. I'm glad to hear you went with the BP-51's! - I've made the decision to roll with them as well, I think for my application they will be just right. And, I actually reached out to the shop that I've been working with and they were able to clarify some really good points on the choice as well, I posed this same question to them. I'll include that info here incase any others are torn on the decision in the future that might help their decision making.

I'm getting the work done at a very respected shop up here in the PNW - (dasmule) - [Mule Expedition Outfitters] - They only install parts that you order through them as you mentioned. They'll be handling alot of the upgrades that I either don't feel comfortable with or just plain don't know how to do, and I want it done right the first time, and I'm willing to pay a little more for experts to perform the work than save a few hundred bucks. The primary reasoning is, I'm transporting my family in this rig, more often than not on high mountain - single track roads. I want to be confident that it's been gone over with a fine tooth comb and verified by professionals.

They'll be performing:
- Body mount chop - To fit a set of Falken Wildpeak AT3/w tires @ 285/70/17
-- These will give me maximum performance in snow/ice and all-terrain + good on-road manners
- Old Man Emu - BP-51 (medium spring) install
- Total Chaos UCA's
- Alignment
- Wheel / Tire install (wheel fitment done at DiscountTire)

@JoshMTN4R
My Upgrade was done in early June, since then been camping a few times including Ouray during FJ Summit weekend. The experience so far with the 2006 4runner running BP-51's, OME springs, SPC UCA's on BFG KO2 275/70/17 checks all of the boxes above. (On my rig going to KO2's @ 285/70/17 would have required much more work to fit so I went with the 275's, not to mention will not fit in stock spare location and I did not want it inside or on the roof). If you are not doing all of the upgrades at the same time plan to get medium springs now. Then as you add on the bumpers (winch, swingouts....) switch to heavier springs or #1 will go out the window till the weight is added.

Boort

That is awesome to hear it! - That FJ Summit looks like a killer event. Gotcha, interesting to hear that the 285 KO2's won't fit under. I'm pretty sure it does on the 5th gen though from what I've read. Perhaps the extra rubber on the KO2's is to blame there? I really would like to have my spare on a rear swing arm plate bumper with some fuel/water Jerry's. I'm looking at Relentless Fab to solve that, they've got a great rear.

For those interested in any further reasoning behind the decision on the BP-51's - see this screenshot of my discussion with the team I'm working with @ Mule Expedition.

@Boort @bencleveland - Thanks a ton for the dicussion here! - Hope we're able to cross paths on the trails some day. :)

 

[Boort]

@JoshMTN4R,

FJ Summit was a great event with any luck I'll actually attend next year. :) I just happened to be meeting up with friends in Ouray that weekend and got to talk to various folks and look out for OB badges around town while passing back and forth between trails.

"I want it done right the first time, and I'm willing to pay a little more for experts to perform the work than save a few hundred bucks." Roger that same here. The advice in you received in your chat screenshot reinforces the same advice I received from SLEE down in Golden Co, who did the work on my truck.

I hope to get another trip to the PNW in the next year or so. Was just there on the coast from Olympic NP down to Bandon Or for about 2 weeks last fall, and if $ and vacation time can line up heading to Eastern Sierras this fall. Hope to meet up with ya.

Boort

 

[Ben Cleveland]

Josh, sounds like you've got the clarity and decision you needed! Doing it right the first time definitely pays off. The parts you're choosing are complete, esp since you're upgrading UCA's at the same time. Only other thing I would say is look into possibly relocating front sway bar forward (simple bracket), extended rear swaybar links, and possibly a diff drop. Diff drops are cheap, and somewhat disputed. You get better CV angles, but your diff is 1" lower. Some people swear by them, others don't like them. I chose to go with one, hoping to keep my CV's in good working order. When you go up to 3", its something to consider.

Some 4th and 5th gen guys have reported front swaybars hitting the coils at full droop when lifting up to 3", and extended links in the rear help keep the rear swaybar from compressing the rear springs and a rough ride. Of course, lots of guys choose to remove sways completely, which is an option, and increases downtravel slightly, but at the cost of on-road stability. Not a great tradeoff for a family vehicle that's going to still see lots of highway miles IMO, but that's another option that people take. These are some of the more common issues found on 4th and 5th gen 4runners when you lift 3" and over. You don't necessarily have to do anything, you may not have any of these issues, but I'd suggest at least asking your shop about those issues and if they think you should do anything proactive. These issues are also not brand or lift specific, just some common oddities our 4runners can develop when lifted 3" and over. FWIW, I did a 3" front and 3.5ish" rear lift on my 4th gen, did the diff drop, and swaybar modifications mentioned, and have had no binding or issues others have mentioned. And I have no idea if that's because i wouldn't have had them anyways, or because I avoided them with my mods.

Super excited to hear about your experience once you get everything installed! Gonna have a really great ride to it. Nothing I love more than a well tuned, high quality suspension on an offroad vehicle. You'll need to post some pics once you get your work done.

 

[Mogwai]

Remember too rebuildable shocks... Well... need to be rebuilt. About every 50k miles. You need to pull them off, send them in, wait a week, and put them back on. Just make sure you're ok with this, and the down the road costs as well.

Otherwise, you could easily have gotten away with standard OME setup or even better the Bilstein 6112/5160 for half the cost and not have to rebuild. Just replace after 100k if you really want to. Racing suspensions are sweet but they are also built to be beat on. If you don't intend to do that, it's really just superfluous spend.

 

[JoshMTN4R]

Remember too rebuildable shocks... Well... need to be rebuilt. About every 50k miles. You need to pull them off, send them in, wait a week, and put them back on. Just make sure you're ok with this, and the down the road costs as well.

Otherwise, you could easily have gotten away with standard OME setup or even better the Bilstein 6112/5160 for half the cost and not have to rebuild. Just replace after 100k if you really want to. Racing suspensions are sweet but they are also built to be beat on. If you don't intend to do that, it's really just superfluous spend.

Legitimate points Mogwai, I'm okay with getting them rebuilt, there is an ARB USA Shop about 30 minutes from my house when the time comes. I'm okay with some maintenance costs down the road for the performance that I'm looking for out of my suspension.

 

[Tuan]

Thanks for the thorough response Ben, goals for the suspension upgrade are in order of priority here:
1. Maintain a comfortable ride quality off-road (not too stiff) - Comfort for the family on long rugged trails and moderate obstacles.
2. Allow for a slightly larger than stock tire to improve ground clearance. (285/70/17)
3. Allow increased weight capacity for armor and cargo add-ons and passengers (2 adults, 2 children under age 10 + 1 dog)

Getting to remote locations to camp with the family is the direction. I'm not planning any extreme rock crawling, or mobbing the desert at all. I realize I could get away with the stock suspension, but adding cargo and larger tires and cargo capacity will overload those from what I'm reading.

How're the BP51's holding up after a few months? Im still running stock everything except the new suspension. I've messed around with the compression/rebound settings and settled on 3c/6r last night. Changed it to 3c/7r today and felt a little better about it. What are you settings at? How does it feel?