New to board - soon to be member from SW Germany || Tim with Jeep Commander

[Fyris]

Hey community

just taking this as a starter to quickly introduce myself

My name is Tim and I'm an outdoor loving Jeep driver.
I'm living in the SW of Germany at Lake Constance and close to Black-Forest.
I'm an engineer working at automotive manufacturer HQ in Zurich, Switzerland.
Touring and exploring offroad is just the perfect way to take a break from everyday things to me.
After a good nice weekend mini-expedition I feel recharged and back on the game again.
But I also enjoy bigger trips that go out for a couple days to weeks.

The thing is, I just love being outside in the woods or an a trail with my Jeep, my girlfriend and/or a good friend on my side and go out to explore.
I try to do this as much as I can and that's why my family and especially my younger brothers are already joking and calling me the expeditionist :D but that's fine - that's what I love doing - and sometimes it's just a Jeep thing :D

Just by mistake I stumbled on OB - I was actually watching a youtube vid from OB2459, where I saw this little OB batch on his back.
And as curious as I'am, I immediately checked this out and had to say that this bound follows same principles as I do.

I hope to find good inspiration for my second Jeep for building an overlanding vehicle.
Doesn't have to be overkill with all sorts of fancy gear on but to get the best compromise - also with regulatory institutions in mind here in Germany where certain limits on builds have to be kept...!
Right now I'm driving a 2007 Jeep Commander Limited with the 3.0 Mercedes Diesel.
It's intended to put on an OME 2" lift Suspension, PMR and CB Radio, auxilary lights and other electrics, beefier tyres, some underbody guards and of course a roof rack... the list is long, wallet small
In parallel I'm planning on an offroad "activity trailer" build, where I intend to put all the outdoor gear (2 MTB, 2 kayaks, some storage, cooking place, ...., and a rooftop tent on.

I also hope that I can be a contributor of ideas, solutions and to provide support on sutsaining preservation of nature and endorse others to the outdoors.

Everyone, feel welcome to drop by a comment, PM or shoot questions as you have.
I'm looking for fellows that like to join me/us or let me/us join them on trips and tours.

 

[Chadlyb]

Hey community

just taking this as a starter to quickly introduce myself

My name is Tim and I'm an outdoor loving Jeep driver.
I'm living in the SW of Germany at Lake Constance and close to Black-Forest.
I'm an engineer working at automotive manufacturer HQ in Zurich, Switzerland.
Touring and exploring offroad is just the perfect way to take a break from everyday things to me.
After a good nice weekend mini-expedition I feel recharged and back on the game again.
But I also enjoy bigger trips that go out for a couple days to weeks.

The thing is, I just love being outside in the woods or an a trail with my Jeep, my girlfriend and/or a good friend on my side and go out to explore.
I try to do this as much as I can and that's why my family and especially my younger brothers are already joking and calling me the expeditionist :D but that's fine - that's what I love doing - and sometimes it's just a Jeep thing :D

Just by mistake I stumbled on OB - I was actually watching a youtube vid from OB2459, where I saw this little OB batch on his back.
And as curious as I'am, I immediately checked this out and had to say that this bound follows same principles as I do.

I hope to find good inspiration for my second Jeep for building an overlanding vehicle.
Doesn't have to be overkill with all sorts of fancy gear on but to get the best compromise - also with regulatory institutions in mind here in Germany where certain limits on builds have to be kept...!
Right now I'm driving a 2007 Jeep Commander Limited with the 3.0 Mercedes Diesel.
It's intended to put on an OME 2" lift Suspension, PMR and CB Radio, auxilary lights and other electrics, beefier tyres, some underbody guards and of course a roof rack... the list is long, wallet small
In parallel I'm planning on an offroad "activity trailer" build, where I intend to put all the outdoor gear (2 MTB, 2 kayaks, some storage, cooking place, ...., and a rooftop tent on.

I also hope that I can be a contributor of ideas, solutions and to provide support on sutsaining preservation of nature and endorse others to the outdoors.

Everyone, feel welcome to drop by a comment, PM or shoot questions as you have.
I'm looking for fellows that like to join me/us or let me/us join them on trips and tours.

View attachment 65688 View attachment 65689

Hello Tim and welcome to the OB crew...great looking Jeep and look forward to seeing your build and your adventures. Definitely wasn't a mistake but luck that you found us and now we have you. So welcome to you both.

 

[Luis Merlo]

Welcome !

 

[4wheelspulling]

Hello and welcome to OB! Tim, love your Jeep Commander! Take a look at my build! Still not done, but I am also running a Mercedes Benz 3.0, 617 turbo diesel in my Jeep Cherokee! Will be getting new gears next month! Glad to meet someone else with a Diesel Jeep! Will be watching to see what you to build up yours! Benz.

 

[DanW]

Welcome! Love the Commander!

 

[Fyris]

hey thank you all on the welcoming here - really appreciate it

Hello and welcome to OB! Tim, love your Jeep Commander! Take a look at my build! Still not done, but I am also running a Mercedes Benz 3.0, 617 turbo diesel in my Jeep Cherokee! Will be getting new gears next month! Glad to meet someone else with a Diesel Jeep! Will be watching to see what you to build up yours! Benz.

The torque of the diesel and the V6 is probably the best match to this vehicle - I definetly also started thinking about reinforcing the drivetrain gearing and bearings because of the torque. The Commander is known for having issues with differential and pinion bearings because of the high torque already availablee at low RPMs - in fact my last Commander had the front pinion bearing gone out due to this.
So far I don't have issues on the current one. But that also relates to the fact that my current Jeep never had to pull trailers so far. Going forward this will be the case, especially with the activity trailer project in mind .
...An awesome overkill idea would be portal axles on the Jeep haha just popped up in my mind

 

[CCHeath]

Welcome to the club. With all the vehicle choices in Germany what made you want to get a Jeep? What is overlanding like in Germany and Europe?

 

[Luis Merlo]

@Kevigizmo

 

[Kevigizmo]

Hey Tim!

Welcome to the community!
Great to hear that you were curious enough to wonder what we are all about and taking the first step in joining in on the community

I spent around 6 years living in Germany over at Darmstadt about 20 odd years ago, I'm itching to get back and see how things have changed
Black Forest! wow, I have seen lots of images in that region and always wanted to go check it out

If you have any questions or need some assistance feel free to drop any of the OB team a line

Kev

 

[Fyris]

Welcome to the club. With all the vehicle choices in Germany what made you want to get a Jeep? What is overlanding like in Germany and Europe?

thanks for welcoming, and sorry for the novel I´m going to write now

well what made me buy this Jeep? - probably the last one haha -

I already used to own the exact same model, same model year just different color and a bunch more miles on the dail. I had to give it away because I was really short of money back in these days and the differential-bearings broke in a way that the workshop told me they´d have to install front and rear new axles/differential. I was actually able to sell it for a few coins more then I originally spend on the Jeep - this was due to the very good deal I´ve made on the purchase. After my first Jeep I drove my by then already quite aged Citroen Xantia and after that one a Volvo V50 2.4. But none of these cars really suited my lifestyle of loving the outdoors and my hearts need of driving a Jeep. Due to my Job I get regularely to drive amazing cars like Cadillac, Corvette and Camaro. But driving the Jeep is unlike any other car for me to drive. Even though I´m a very sophisticated G-Class Professional line fan, it´s just not affordable for me. Same story on Landcruiser 79 double cab. I was so close on buying one of these.

Overlanding in Europe or especially Germany differs quite a bit from overlanding in Australia or the US.

First-off: so called wild camping is prohibited in many states - since you´re pretty quickly in another country with different regulations you need to know and respect local rules carefully.
The very west and the north of Europe is usually better suited for overlanding than the dense populated central europe.

Secondly: Modifying your vehicle.
You can try to go fully wild with tyres, winch bumpers, lights, radios etc but it will come to an early end when you have to get your vehicle street legally homologated. This process differs from country to country you´re actually linving in.
So for me in Germany it´s pretty strict and can get quite costy.
Taking an example: you find nice beadlock steel rims in the internet but without a type-approval or material-design-documentation. You'll have to fund all sorts of tests and the TÜV then will decide if a given combination on the rims plus a tyre is okay to be fitted to your vehicle. After this first step, the rims have to be mounted on the vehicle and it will be measured in detail (especially the track wdth in this case) if it all matches the boundaries of the regulations, you can homologate your car with this tyre-rim combination. You´re street legal after vehicle document issuing by the vehicle administration authorities.
Lights, winch bumpers etc are more complicated.
For radios national regulations apply.
Some countries have special regulations on top of the ones above in place (MTs/ATs in Italy,...)

So as it´s connected with some hassle, but with a bit of research, time, money and a competent workshop - more or less all is possible

sorry for all this text, I guess you can skip half of it :P

 

[Fyris]

Hey Tim!

Welcome to the community!
Great to hear that you were curious enough to wonder what we are all about and taking the first step in joining in on the community

I spent around 6 years living in Germany over at Darmstadt about 20 odd years ago, I'm itching to get back and see how things have changed
Black Forest! wow, I have seen lots of images in that region and always wanted to go check it out

If you have any questions or need some assistance feel free to drop any of the OB team a line

Kev

Hey Kev

haha well I guess since 20 years some things changed, but a bunch of "nice" things are still in place :D
You should do it, winters are pretty exciting with quite some snow and in the summer time it´s great for hiking and mountain biking. But my mean and honest comparrision, you can have this in the Lake-Constance area as well. Plus you´re really close to Switzerland, Austria or France for various adventures. And I enjoy the Lake-Constance as I also hold some boating licences

Let me know when you´re coming over for a trip, Germanys highest waterfalls are in the black forest area and great to check-out. I´d join on that :D

-Tim

 

[CCHeath]

Fyris, I read your entire post and found it informative.

I did some research looked up Landrover Germany, Toyota Germany, Jeep Germany, Mercedes Benz Germany, and Ford Germany. It looks like you can buy a Hilux but not a 70 series Land Cruiser, a Jeep Wrangler, and a Ford Ranger. When I went to the Landrover site there was not an option to buy a Defender, and I could not find a commercial grade G Wagon. It looks like you options for a vehicle are limited.

Where do people buy 70 series Land Cruisers if you cannot buy them from your local Toyota dealer?

Do you need a special license to drive Unimogs and MAN trucks?

We in the States complain about the lack of vehicles choices but I think we have it pretty good because we can take a stock truck and modify it for overlanding/offroading.

If wild camping is not allowed to you camp in a campground? Are there any offroad routes through Europe. Could you drive North to South or East to West with staying off the pavement.

I see you live near Stuttgart. That is where my family is from though they emigrated in the 1840's to the United States.

 

[Kevigizmo]

Hey Kev

haha well I guess since 20 years some things changed, but a bunch of "nice" things are still in place :D
You should do it, winters are pretty exciting with quite some snow and in the summer time it´s great for hiking and mountain biking. But my mean and honest comparrision, you can have this in the Lake-Constance area as well. Plus you´re really close to Switzerland, Austria or France for various adventures. And I enjoy the Lake-Constance as I also hold some boating licences

Let me know when you´re coming over for a trip, Germanys highest waterfalls are in the black forest area and great to check-out. I´d join on that :D

-Tim

Sounds like a plan,

I'll certainly keep it in mind, would take a fair bit of funds on this side to do it so may take some time, but will certainly do bit more research into it as i wouldn't mind coming back to Germany - I keep promising myself I'll attend the Abenteuer Allrad Bad Kissingen but something pops up which means I have to change my plans sadly

 

[Fyris]

Fyris, I read your entire post and found it informative.

I did some research looked up Landrover Germany, Toyota Germany, Jeep Germany, Mercedes Benz Germany, and Ford Germany. It looks like you can buy a Hilux but not a 70 series Land Cruiser, a Jeep Wrangler, and a Ford Ranger. When I went to the Landrover site there was not an option to buy a Defender, and I could not find a commercial grade G Wagon. It looks like you options for a vehicle are limited.

Where do people buy 70 series Land Cruisers if you cannot buy them from your local Toyota dealer?

Do you need a special license to drive Unimogs and MAN trucks?

We in the States complain about the lack of vehicles choices but I think we have it pretty good because we can take a stock truck and modify it for overlanding/offroading.

If wild camping is not allowed to you camp in a campground? Are there any offroad routes through Europe. Could you drive North to South or East to West with staying off the pavement.

I see you live near Stuttgart. That is where my family is from though they emigrated in the 1840's to the United States.

Hey CC
Yes that'r correct for some aspects but let me clarify the actuals:

Land-Rover is still present with the line-up of Range-Rover and Discovery. It's correct that the Defender is not available any longer, that's due it's only built on single type approval any longer - it went out of series in 2016. Model 2018 is limited to number of 150 units wich are quite expensive. Since this special series does not comply with Euro 6d, registration cannot be garanted.

Toyota is officially present with the passanger car line-up and correct, the Hilux and LandCruiser J15. However, there are specialized dealers nearby that also offer 4Runner, LC J7, FJ Criuser with all kinds of modifications. I'd have gone there for a LC 79 Double Cab, sionce it can be registered as a light truck. With this registration a modification on the front bumper is easier to homologate as pedestrian protection isn't as strickt as on passanger cars (btw that was the "death" of the Defender along with the emissions classification).
http://offroad-nestle.de/de/offroad-4x4/offroad-neufahrzeuge/
https://www.extremfahrzeuge.com/
the LandCruiser J7 comes only as the GRJ model with the 4.0 V6 petrol engine, all bodies are available, they're imported from middle east area. HZJ is pretty tough nowadays, TRD stuff is tricky but manageable to homologate. I sometimes wish to have the same low restrictions of vehicle modifactions as some US states have - but on the other side it's also about road safety and if you relly take the cold dive to the regulations, it can be managed. There are pretty wild build on the roads here as well. :)

G-Wagon, there I'm not fully up to date to be honest.
However since the 462 is still build for armies, I'm pretty sure that there is still the civil version of that with the 3.0l V6 Ad-Blue diesel. The newer version W463 is not offered as comercial grade so far.

Jeep is available with the entire line-up - except the Grand Commander wich is expected to be China only as of now.

Depending on the weight of the Unimog or an MAN vehicle, you need at least category C1 on the drivers license. Regular passanger car license B/BE(with trailer) only elects you to drive vehicles up to 3.5 metric tons of gross weight.

For camping you should look for a designated campgrounds. As said in the very north or the very west of Europe, since there is abit more wilderness than in central Europe, you also have the chance to do wild camping - as long as the local rules are respected. But since Europe in generall is pretty developed, you can hardly avoid pavement frankly speaking. So a good set of ATs will do the job just fine. It's getting more interesting when you're leaving the EU and go for Marocco or other parts of North Africa.

Haha the world is small I guess - yes Stuttgart is not so far away from my place. I'm there occasionally.

 

[Fyris]

Sounds like a plan,

I'll certainly keep it in mind, would take a fair bit of funds on this side to do it so may take some time, but will certainly do bit more research into it as i wouldn't mind coming back to Germany - I keep promising myself I'll attend the Abenteuer Allrad Bad Kissingen but something pops up which means I have to change my plans sadly

I've been on two Abenteuer Allrad already - wouldn't mind to go there for a camping as well. The exhibition gets more and more to an overlanding festival with program, campground etc. You get to meet quite some interesting people there and of course good prices on equipment

 

[CCHeath]

It is ironic that the one off-road ready vehicle you can buy from a dealership is a Jeep Rubicon.

 

[Fyris]

It is ironic that the one off-road ready vehicle you can buy from a dealership is a Jeep Rubicon.

wouldn't take it as ironic as Jeep relates to be fully offroad to me at least.

However, it also depends on the level of what you consider as off-road worhty.
Since you will not run into hard rock crawling here whithout violently forcing to do so - even a good equipped SUV can be seen as offroad worthy.

To me it comes down to articulation, lockable axles and reduction gearing. And if you search for these criterias you find plenty of vehicles suitable: Mitsubishi Pajero, LandCruiser J15, Hilix, Amarok, G-class, Trailhawk Jeeps, Ford Ranger,... Suzuki Jimny.
And you can drive them all offroad. It comes down to the driver and how much pain you're willing to take up.
And after that it comes to tyres.

My Jeep Commander is definetely more SUV than hard-core-rackcrawler. But to be honest, it features all my needs of having a comfortable ride, plus 3 locking differentials, low-range, a live axle in the back, good towing - and that's basically all I need from a good 4x4 truck for overlanding and as daily.
I'm building a rig for enjoying outdoors, not to beat nature :D

 

[T-One]

Schöne grüße aus Vorarlberg ;)

 

[Fyris]

Schöne grüße aus Vorarlberg ;)

ha danke! - da war ich mal auf der Schule (Bregenz)

 

[MazeVX]

Finally the first one to welcome you from germany... Schöne Grüße aus Hessen!
Muss mir den Rest noch durchlesen aber wollte mal hallo sagen!

@CCHeath : as an addition to the very good explanations by Fyris, offroad in most central countries is really difficult, only the Netherlands and Poland officially allowes you to go offroad were its not prohibited by roadsing. If you go further south to the Balkan area and even farther everything starts to become more and more easy and the amount of gravel roads raises rapidly.
As far as I know the G wagon isn't public available since 2016, the professionals were the last rugged variants to be sold.
If there are any questions don't hesitate to ask, most of the European members will be glad to talk about everything here.

@Fyris it's very noticeable your working in the automotive business, your explanations are great I'm also working in this business.

Mfg Mathias