Gen 2 TACO or???

[Vincent Keith]

I'm going by the Wiki defined generations (Aug 2004 - Aug 2015)

So, for various reasons, I'm looking at used trucks, and I could use suggessions.
(The story way too long and convoluted to share here - see the never to be release 9,000 page novel - What the Heck have I done and what am I Gonna Drive?)


So, I'd like to keep this little purchase to under 20K and the closer I can get to 10K the better.

Goal 1: Reliability
Goal 2: Pickup (For oh so many boring but practial reasons)
Goal 3: 4x4 - Becuse I hate putting on chains to get out of my driveway (okay I've never actually had to do that but you get the idea)
Goal 3: Overland Bound
Goal 4: Towing (lite, utility/teardrop sized stuff)


At the top of my list is the TACO
Also on my list is - nothing, if you have ideas, I'm open. I will not be considering Gen 2 Dodge Rams (I have one and I'm very annoyed with it right now)

Are their any significant year changes that I should be aware of? What's too many miles?

Upgrades that will eventually (might take a year or two) happen (mostly in order)
Stereo/handsfree/ Nav?? / Backup Camera/ Front Camera/ decode FLAC and ideally DSD. micro SD
Lights
Ham/GMRS Radios, battery system, etc
XPlore Slate R12 mount (cellular data/windows 10 core i7 rugged tablet)
Bed liner (if missing)
Rack - undecided Thule, Leitner - other?
Lockers ??? does it have them? can I add them?
Wheels & Tires (will happen when I need new tires) Tire Size? Wheel Size? Wheel Brand?
Suspension (depends a bit on the state of the vehicle in question) Icon? Other?
Sliders Brand?
Bumpers Brand?
Winch - leaning toward Smittybuilt but mostly undecided.

Things I probably don't need - Factory Suspension package, cool wheels, fancy sound system, since these will likely be upgraded - maybe if the radio has enough features...

 

[Boort]

So, I'd like to keep this little purchase to under 20K and the closer I can get to 10K the better.

Are their any significant year changes that I should be aware of? What's too many miles?

Upgrades that will eventually (might take a year or two) happen (mostly in order)
Stereo/handsfree/ Nav?? / Backup Camera/ Front Camera/ decode FLAC and ideally DSD. micro SD
Lights
Ham/GMRS Radios, battery system, etc
XPlore Slate R12 mount (cellular data/windows 10 core i7 rugged tablet)
Bed liner (if missing)
Rack - undecided Thule, Leitner - other?
Lockers ??? does it have them? can I add them?
Wheels & Tires (will happen when I need new tires) Tire Size? Wheel Size? Wheel Brand?
Suspension (depends a bit on the state of the vehicle in question) Icon? Other?
Sliders Brand?
Bumpers Brand?
Winch - leaning toward Smittybuilt but mostly undecided.

Based on my looking back in January I'll say the following:

• $10-20k doable but expect mileage at 110k+
• Look for trucks with 1 owner and detailed service records, Make sure records show oil changes and big ticket service (timing belts etc...) done on time. To me this mattered more than mileage.
• Look for the 4L v6. 3.4L was available in the earlier years you mention and is a great engine but the 4L has more power for towing. (My 97 3.4L does not like towing my popup A-frame trailer through the Co Mountains, but Trailer PO had no problems with the 4L.)
  
• If Automatic, look for factory towing package (larger trans cooler helps extend life of fluids when towing or "overloading")
  
• Most Gen 2's have plastic composite beds so not likely to be lined. Sprayed in liner would be a tell-tail that something was likely repaired and hidden.
• Look for 17" rims in case you want to do a Tundra brake swap in the future for better stopping power. If you are looking to buy rims later the TRD Pro in 17x7 is what I went with on my 4Runner.
  
• Make sure the Headlights are clear and look to see if they have been recently buffed out. Around here they tend to craze and yellow you can buff it out but only a few times before needing new housings.
• Unless you get lucky you are unlikely to find a truck in your price range with the Factory rear e-locker so consider after market options and see if after cost is better or worse than finding a factory e-locker in your area. (ARB and Eaton come to mind) Some years I think it was the TRD Offroad package that offered the locker.
• I went with the sliders from https://rcimetalworks.com/ They offer sales from time to time on various forums (TW and t4r.org come to mind Not sure if they are on OB) so keep an eye out.

Best of luck with your search!
Boort

 

[JCWages]

You might consider the older 4Runners as well. They are pretty capable rigs, reliable and you can sleep inside without having to buy a bed topper or rack/RTT. Like most Toyotas there is a lot of aftermarket support and OEM parts are easy to find.

 

[freedomomelet]

beware of the evil rust problems of gen2's......2005-2010 year models. Make sure they had frames replaced

 

[Vincent Keith]

Based on my looking back in January I'll say the following:

• $10-20k doable but expect mileage at 110k+
• Look for trucks with 1 owner and detailed service records, Make sure records show oil changes and big ticket service (timing belts etc...) done on time. To me this mattered more than mileage.
• Look for the 4L v6. 3.4L was available in the earlier years you mention and is a great engine but the 4L has more power for towing. (My 97 3.4L does not like towing my popup A-frame trailer through the Co Mountains, but Trailer PO had no problems with the 4L.)
  
• If Automatic, look for factory towing package (larger trans cooler helps extend life of fluids when towing or "overloading")
  
• Most Gen 2's have plastic composite beds so not likely to be lined. Sprayed in liner would be a tell-tail that something was likely repaired and hidden.
• Look for 17" rims in case you want to do a Tundra brake swap in the future for better stopping power. If you are looking to buy rims later the TRD Pro in 17x7 is what I went with on my 4Runner.
  
• Make sure the Headlights are clear and look to see if they have been recently buffed out. Around here they tend to craze and yellow you can buff it out but only a few times before needing new housings.
• Unless you get lucky you are unlikely to find a truck in your price range with the Factory rear e-locker so consider after market options and see if after cost is better or worse than finding a factory e-locker in your area. (ARB and Eaton come to mind) Some years I think it was the TRD Offroad package that offered the locker.
• I went with the sliders from https://rcimetalworks.com/ They offer sales from time to time on various forums (TW and t4r.org come to mind Not sure if they are on OB) so keep an eye out.

Best of luck with your search!
Boort

Thanks,
it would not have crossed my mind that you could do a Tundra break swap. Nice to know about the truck beds too - see where assuming can get you? Replacing headlights seems to be thing with modern cars, it's one of those tradeoffs - breaking glass or yellowing plastic. 4L V6 - good idea.

I go back and forth on manual vs automatic. How is the auto in the Toyota? Would that be a mistake? How many miles are people getting on their clutches - especially people who do Overlanding monthly?

 

[Vincent Keith]

You might consider the older 4Runners as well. They are pretty capable rigs, reliable and you can sleep inside without having to buy a bed topper or rack/RTT. Like most Toyotas there is a lot of aftermarket support and OEM parts are easy to find.

The 4Runner is not an option - it's not a pickup. Other than that I like them.

 

[Vincent Keith]

beware of the evil rust problems of gen2's......2005-2010 year models. Make sure they had frames replaced

Ahh... Okay, I just started reading about this - thanks for the tip. It seems it's not just those years or just TACOs

This was kinda fascinating. https://autoweek.com/article/recalls/toyota-frame-settlement-could-cost-company-34-billion

Is this a big issue with West coast cars? It's now high on my list of first things to check.

 

[Boort]

Thanks, it would not have crossed my mind that you could do a Tundra break swap.

I go back and forth on manual vs automatic. How is the auto in the Toyota? Would that be a mistake? How many miles are people getting on their clutches - especially people who do Overlanding monthly?

The Tundra Break swap is basically getting after market version of the larger brakes that I have on my 06 4Runner Sport Edition. Even with the larger breaks the T4r drives HEAVY compared to the Manual 1st Gen Taco w/ stock brakes. I've got the old 4Runner 17" rims to do the Tundra brake swap next time the taco he needs new breaks.

Wish I could say I was overlanding monthly but alas... My 97 taco just got it's 1st replacement clutch at over 320k miles back in June. Mostly hwy miles but she never shied away from a forest road or mountain pass. The 4Runner auto seems good but I've only had her for 8 months so only time will tell. My Brother has a second gen v6 auto used for DD / hunting/camping and I've not heard any complaints about his transmission.

For the frame rust it'll depend on where it spent life. Here in CO I have not seen much of an issue even though we salt the roads and snow 6 months a year in the high country. Up in WA might matter which side of the cascades it lived on. Get a LED lit bore scope and small hammer and check all frame sections and welds or get it inspected before purchase. Here is the scope I used:

Boort

 

[Ben Cleveland]

Having had a 2nd gen taco, and a 4th gen 4runner, if I were going to go back and choose any rig, I'd choose a Tundra instead.

1) My taco was amazing. Capable, nimble, good offroad, and reliable. Had no issues with it whatsoever, it was supposed to be my forever truck. Got rid of it because we still owed 8K on it, and I knew we could purchase an older toyota with the cash we would make after the sale of my taco, and still pay off that note. Boring, practical, adulting.

2) Tacos do not have much space in them, not even the double cab models. Coming from a dodge ram, you'll be surprised. There just isn't much space at all in the cab for storage. That's the biggest reason we moved away from the taco, and the reason I would not go back.

3) V6 vs V8: I used my taco for light to heavy towing, including some loads I had absolutely no business towing with the taco. After I upgraded the rear springs, it actually handled the loads quite capably. But the V6 power is lacking, in my opinion, if you're towing with any amount of regularity.

The Tundra has a reliable V8, much better in cab space, and still gives you similar fuel economy, and a good solid steel bed for "truck stuff". I'm aware this is ultimately a preference thing, but after doing the tacoma, and doing the 4runner currently, I believe the tundra is a better choice for your listed needs (which pretty much perfectly voice my needs). The taco always felt like a compromise as a midsize truck. Midsize IS compromise. Moving to a 4runner fixed the interior space issues, but I still feel that compromise in GVWR, towing capacity, and power. I think the Tundra is a good solution for both.

In terms of Tacoma specific stuff, Boort is correct on all of his notes in the previous post. Overall, the 2nd gens are very reliable vehicles, with few widely problematic issues outside of the frame rust issue. Don't buy a northern Tacoma. I wouldn't even remotely consider it. If you live in the north, still buy a southern one, then do your choice of fluid film/POR15 etc. Also I would NOT consider a later generation tacoma, I know they've had some issues with transmission reliability and shifting programs. Don't know much about those issues, but I've read enough to know that I would only go 2nd gen right now if I WERE considering another Tacoma.

Hope this is helpful!

 

[Vincent Keith]

Having had a 2nd gen taco, and a 4th gen 4runner, if I were going to go back and choose any rig, I'd choose a Tundra instead.

1) My taco was amazing. Capable, nimble, good offroad, and reliable. Had no issues with it whatsoever, it was supposed to be my forever truck. Got rid of it because we still owed 8K on it, and I knew we could purchase an older toyota with the cash we would make after the sale of my taco, and still pay off that note. Boring, practical, adulting.

2) Tacos do not have much space in them, not even the double cab models. Coming from a dodge ram, you'll be surprised. There just isn't much space at all in the cab for storage. That's the biggest reason we moved away from the taco, and the reason I would not go back.

3) V6 vs V8: I used my taco for light to heavy towing, including some loads I had absolutely no business towing with the taco. After I upgraded the rear springs, it actually handled the loads quite capably. But the V6 power is lacking, in my opinion, if you're towing with any amount of regularity.

The Tundra has a reliable V8, much better in cab space, and still gives you similar fuel economy, and a good solid steel bed for "truck stuff". I'm aware this is ultimately a preference thing, but after doing the tacoma, and doing the 4runner currently, I believe the tundra is a better choice for your listed needs (which pretty much perfectly voice my needs). The taco always felt like a compromise as a midsize truck. Midsize IS compromise. Moving to a 4runner fixed the interior space issues, but I still feel that compromise in GVWR, towing capacity, and power. I think the Tundra is a good solution for both.

In terms of Tacoma specific stuff, Boort is correct on all of his notes in the previous post. Overall, the 2nd gens are very reliable vehicles, with few widely problematic issues outside of the frame rust issue. Don't buy a northern Tacoma. I wouldn't even remotely consider it. If you live in the north, still buy a southern one, then do your choice of fluid film/POR15 etc. Also I would NOT consider a later generation tacoma, I know they've had some issues with transmission reliability and shifting programs. Don't know much about those issues, but I've read enough to know that I would only go 2nd gen right now if I WERE considering another Tacoma.

Hope this is helpful!

The Tundra would be fine I think... A quick check has me thinking that everything I can fit into my budget is 200,000 miles or more. What doesn't need to be replaced/rebuilt at 200K+ miles? - I suppose it'll depend a lot on what was done, when. Suspension+bushings, engine, seats, wheel bearings. How long do the Transfer case and Diffs last? The Transmission? - clutch is no big deal -
I know Toyota's long lasting (minus exceptions) but 200-300k is a lot of miles.

I'd be curious if anyone with full size rigs has had any real difficulty with typical trails that OB members use. If I can do events, then great - the rest of the time, I'm mostly doing logging roads or at worst badly maintained dirt roads. Primarily because I travel alone most often, and the idea of doing a serious recovery by myself is... yeah let's not go there.

I've almost convinced myself that buying a wrecked 84-88 Ram 2500HD /Cummins for parts might be the way to go. My biggest issue with the 99 is I keep having failures for parts that are no longer available. The thing that started this thread was my seized up wipers - which Dodge was unable to repair (they were afraid they were going to break something) and the only available motor seems to require a new timer module - that of course, is no longer available in the Dodge network. Awesome. So tomorrow I start trying to track down junkyard wiper assemblies. With a wreck I could do the Diesel swap, grab spares for things that are hard to find and still have money for a full suspension upgrade. The hard part is finding and sliders and bumpers that aren't insanely expensive, although that's likely to be a problem with the Taco & Tundra too.

 

[Boort]

@Vincent Keith

A quick check has me thinking that everything I can fit into my budget is 200,000 miles or more.

I'd be curious if anyone with full size rigs has had any real difficulty with typical trails that OB members use.

Where are you looking? I found 30+ v6 2ndgen Tacomas in your area under $20k and 150k miles some under 100k at dealers near you:

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?cylCntId=28108&drvTrnId=27105&localVehicles=true&mdId=22250&mkId=20088&mlgId=28862&page=1&perPage=20&prMn=8000&prMx=20000&rd=250&searchSource=GN_REFINEMENT&showMore=false&sort=relevance&stkTypId=28881&yrId=20143&yrId=20199&yrId=20144&yrId=20200&yrId=20145&yrId=20201&yrId=27381&yrId=34923&yrId=39723&yrId=47272&yrId=51683&yrId=56007&zc=98365​

This one looks like it already is riding on 33"s with a lift:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/747432784/overview/​

From that list these 2 stock stood out as deals:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/747115003/overview/
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/740770828/overview/​

Switching to Craigslist There are 28 i listings in the greater Seattle Area:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cta?bundleDuplicates=1&max_price=20000&auto_make_model=toyota+tacoma&min_auto_year=2004&max_auto_year=2015&max_auto_miles=150000&auto_cylinders=4&auto_drivetrain=3&auto_title_status=1​

This 2006 stood out as a prebuilt overlander (Parts choices appear at the higher end, assuming the work was done well) Sliders, lift, front bumper all done and currently just under 100k:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/d/2006-toyota-tacoma-4x4/6675508489.html​

I shied away from full size (and DCLB Tacomas) due to long wheelbase making some of the tight trails around CO very difficult. Most fullsize are also 10+ inches wider which again makes narrow and overgrown trails more difficult.

So far finding parts for my 97 has not been much of an issue. Toyota did need to go out of network for my replacement radiator but that was a timing thing they had one in network but it got lost in transit to my Dealer so they installed a high end aftermarket and gave me the same warranty on parts and labor as the Toyota genuine part. They even had the Drivers window glass in stock when some kids shot it out with a BB gun.

Boort

 

[Vincent Keith]

@Vincent Keith


Where are you looking? I found 30+ v6 2ndgen Tacomas in your area under $20k and 150k miles some under 100k at dealers near you:

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?cylCntId=28108&drvTrnId=27105&localVehicles=true&mdId=22250&mkId=20088&mlgId=28862&page=1&perPage=20&prMn=8000&prMx=20000&rd=250&searchSource=GN_REFINEMENT&showMore=false&sort=relevance&stkTypId=28881&yrId=20143&yrId=20199&yrId=20144&yrId=20200&yrId=20145&yrId=20201&yrId=27381&yrId=34923&yrId=39723&yrId=47272&yrId=51683&yrId=56007&zc=98365​

This one looks like it already is riding on 33"s with a lift:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/747432784/overview/​

From that list these 2 stock stood out as deals:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/747115003/overview/
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/740770828/overview/​

Switching to Craigslist There are 28 i listings in the greater Seattle Area:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cta?bundleDuplicates=1&max_price=20000&auto_make_model=toyota+tacoma&min_auto_year=2004&max_auto_year=2015&max_auto_miles=150000&auto_cylinders=4&auto_drivetrain=3&auto_title_status=1​

This 2006 stood out as a prebuilt overlander (Parts choices appear at the higher end, assuming the work was done well) Sliders, lift, front bumper all done and currently just under 100k:

https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/d/2006-toyota-tacoma-4x4/6675508489.html​

I shied away from full size (and DCLB Tacomas) due to long wheelbase making some of the tight trails around CO very difficult. Most fullsize are also 10+ inches wider which again makes narrow and overgrown trails more difficult.

So far finding parts for my 97 has not been much of an issue. Toyota did need to go out of network for my replacement radiator but that was a timing thing they had one in network but it got lost in transit to my Dealer so they installed a high end aftermarket and gave me the same warranty on parts and labor as the Toyota genuine part. They even had the Drivers window glass in stock when some kids shot it out with a BB gun.

Boort

I've seen the online ads for a few of those. I suspect I'm self filtering trucks with mods becuase they're not "my" mods. I know I'm filtering closer to 10K than 20 - I think 20K is me being really optimistic - sure if I found a 20k truck with Icon stage 7, ARB bumpers, and nice wheels and 33" tires I'd be so close to done that it could easily make sense. As I go though this process I need to adjust my expectations on costs of upgrades. The last time I looked was in 2008.

 

[Boort]

@Vincent Keith

I've seen the online ads for a few of those. I suspect I'm self filtering trucks with mods becuase they're not "my" mods. I know I'm filtering closer to 10K than 20 - I think 20K is me being really optimistic - sure if I found a 20k truck with Icon stage 7, ARB bumpers, and nice wheels and 33" tires I'd be so close to done that it could easily make sense. As I go though this process I need to adjust my expectations on costs of upgrades. The last time I looked was in 2008.

I can understand "Not My Mods". Lots of ways to mess up modding these trucks and better to know it's been done right. The one for 19k that I put in bold was fairly modified they went with Fox instead of Icon and custom tube style bumper instead of ARB, wheels looks Stout if average for a 4x4, tires are near new 35"s rolling under a 4L v6 Access Cab. The Fiberglass Fenders were the only Mod that I might call into question for an overland truck Esp since difficult to undo.

The red Truck appeared basically stock and under 135k for under $12.5k.

If you are not on a tight time line you could subscribe to the 2 search links that I provided and get emails as new matches are posted on either site. this is how I ran for about 12 months before finding the 06 4runner back in Jan.

As for Cost of Mods they can be severe, ESP if you don't have the tools/know-how/Shop space to DIY. The ARB BP51 suspension, TRD Pro Rims, and tires installed cost me over $5k Add on another ~$800 for the Sliders that I hope to have installed this weekend and I'm over $6k, + the $750 or so for the DIY Drawer system and I'm probably right at $7k over purchase price. Still need some front extraction points (~$130 + install or my time) in case of trouble, Lighting upgrades ($500+ depending on what I decide on) I do a lot of offroad moving about at night/dusk/dawn, and likely some sort of air compressor and battery (have not decided if I want onboard or portable & Installed, Kit or full DIY so cost is still fluid).

Kinda kicking my self for not jumping on the tricked out (By a well known overland shop near KC) Lexus GX I considered for $32k and dismissed due to "Not My mods" and having ~155k on the odo. I have not reached that mark yet and might be able to keep it under by doing only the mods I need but likely gonna come close. Just food for thought.

Boort

 

[diabetiktaco]

Thanks,
it would not have crossed my mind that you could do a Tundra break swap. Nice to know about the truck beds too - see where assuming can get you? Replacing headlights seems to be thing with modern cars, it's one of those tradeoffs - breaking glass or yellowing plastic. 4L V6 - good idea.

I go back and forth on manual vs automatic. How is the auto in the Toyota? Would that be a mistake? How many miles are people getting on their clutches - especially people who do Overlanding monthly?

The auto is smooth and trouble free

 

[Vincent Keith]

@Vincent Keith


I can understand "Not My Mods". Lots of ways to mess up modding these trucks and better to know it's been done right. The one for 19k that I put in bold was fairly modified they went with Fox instead of Icon and custom tube style bumper instead of ARB, wheels looks Stout if average for a 4x4, tires are near new 35"s rolling under a 4L v6 Access Cab. The Fiberglass Fenders were the only Mod that I might call into question for an overland truck Esp since difficult to undo.

The red Truck appeared basically stock and under 135k for under $12.5k.

If you are not on a tight time line you could subscribe to the 2 search links that I provided and get emails as new matches are posted on either site. this is how I ran for about 12 months before finding the 06 4runner back in Jan.

As for Cost of Mods they can be severe, ESP if you don't have the tools/know-how/Shop space to DIY. The ARB BP51 suspension, TRD Pro Rims, and tires installed cost me over $5k Add on another ~$800 for the Sliders that I hope to have installed this weekend and I'm over $6k, + the $750 or so for the DIY Drawer system and I'm probably right at $7k over purchase price. Still need some front extraction points (~$130 + install or my time) in case of trouble, Lighting upgrades ($500+ depending on what I decide on) I do a lot of offroad moving about at night/dusk/dawn, and likely some sort of air compressor and battery (have not decided if I want onboard or portable & Installed, Kit or full DIY so cost is still fluid).

Kinda kicking my self for not jumping on the tricked out (By a well known overland shop near KC) Lexus GX I considered for $32k and dismissed due to "Not My mods" and having ~155k on the odo. I have not reached that mark yet and might be able to keep it under by doing only the mods I need but likely gonna come close. Just food for thought.

Boort

I'll definitely look at subscribing to search links, didn't really think about that - it's a good plan. I'm not worried about the milage of any vehicle as long as I can get the parts to fix it. Serious rust is a no-go, and if I can't for example get replacement bushings for warn out parts - that's a no-go. I've got no problem doing a stem to stern rebuild if the price is right - although that seldom happens.

I'll be checking the junkyards to see if I can resurrect the Dodge. I need a wiper assembly and that shouldn't be too hard to come by. I might get two, just to have a spare since they're no longer available new. I need to also dig around on the Dodge forums to see what other parts are no longer available.

While that happens, I'll keep looking at Taco's and Tundras.

I have some more tests to run that I really should have done before I purchased it but I got lazy - never a good plan when it comes to buying a used vehicle.