Brake upgrades

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Scout

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I need to work on the brakes on my '16 Tundra. Brakes pulsate and pads are below half thickness. In the past, I worked at a dealer and was able to resurface my own rotors. It seems nobody likes to do this anymore, even though it's the better thing to do. Anyways, I've been looking around and have thought about going with slotted and drilled rotors with non ceramic pads. The truck is mainly a daily driver and will see off highway use as I get the opportunity.. do you think it's worth the $$$ to get drilled and slotted rotors or just stick with oem style replacements?? I've used the better style rotors on my old Pro Street Cuda, but I also raced that. So I was looking at weight savings. Not sure on a DD.
 

mmnorthdirections

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I would use EBC rotors and pads as I do. If you just need pads EBC is a fine brand and then have the rotors done after replacement of the pads at a brake shop that does (on the car rotor turning). I have used les schwab and am very happy with the result as the FJ cruiser is susceptible to wheel shimmy. The thing you want is a brake shop to use a machine that turns the rotors on the vehicle, On the vehicle it incorporates run-out variations and will eliminate them...
Good luck, les schwab has been good to me!!!!!!
 
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TreXTerra

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In my experience, turning a rotor just leads to more warping due to the lack of material.

I went through this same conundrum when I wore out the front rotors. Drilled and slotted rotors are a bit of an anachronism these days. The purpose of the holes and slots was to sweep away incandescent material from the pads that would act as a dry lubricant and lengthen braking distances. Although these designs still exist for high performance track use, they are not the best option for modern brake materials.

Modern ceramic pads don't produce the same incandescent material that older pad materials did -- well, they do, but only at hypercar or race track speeds. The slots and holes in rotors create weak points that are prone to failure. For off road use, they also tend to catch rocks and dirt that can groove the pads and cause premature wear and even total rotor failure.

After talking to experts, including autocrossers and track day drivers, I found that pretty much everyone is using blank rotors these days to avoid stress and heat cracks. I purchased some Centric blank rotors and Centric ceramic pads. Even with all the added weight, the blank rotors stop much shorter than my worn ones. I have more than enough braking power to stop the vehicle and activate the ABS (and chirp the rubber) on dry pavement.

Slotted and drilled rotors look cool, but they will end up letting you down and don't offer any improvement in performance for low speed or street use.
 

Scout

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I've used the on car lathes. When I left the dealership, I wanted to purchase one for here at home and still do. The place I used to work closed the doors and auctioned everything off. Of course when that happened, I was on vaca. Go figure. I will never use a set of ceramic pads again. I had them on my wife's old Jeep GC and on my previous truck. An '11 Ram. Nothing but issues with stopping friction/pressures with both vehicles that had 4 wheel disc brakes. They both had the "blank" style rotors. That's why I questioned about slotted/drilled with non ceramic pads. I'm thinking a semi metallic would be ok? I understand about the heating/cooling affect. Which is why I'm curious to know about the brake dust of a semi metallic evacuating through the holes and slots enough to be a non issue. Thanks for the info so far guys.
 

mmnorthdirections

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I want to be clear with this info. Never use drilled rotors on an off road vehicle, they trap debris. Dimpled and slotted rotors do not and they expel heat/water and debris at a greater rate than do solid rotors under extreme use, heat leads to fade. Here is an example of water effect on brakes. So you drive through a puddle and need to stop, Solid rotors have a thin layer of water over the entire surface and the pad tries to compress the water but that is impossible so the brakes do not work until the water layer is gone (fade). On D/S rotors they get rid of the water and debris through the slots faster because it has a place to go under pressure. That's why they work so well.
 

Scout

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I realize what you say about being drilled or dimpled. Aren't they all considered drilled but are actually dimpled?? Thanks for your "clearing" up my words. Sorry. I never thought about the film if water scenario. Thanks for that tidbit. Where I am, I do and will be crossing creeks/streams when hunting or getting to camp.
 

TreXTerra

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Do they no longer teach drivers to apply a bit of brake after driving through water? I remember that being part of diver's ed about 20 years ago.

At the slow speeds you will be driving while off road, brake fade isn't really an issue.

Sent via Pony Express and Carrier Pigeon.
 

mmnorthdirections

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I realize what you say about being drilled or dimpled. Aren't they all considered drilled but are actually dimpled?? Thanks for your "clearing" up my words. Sorry. I never thought about the film if water scenario. Thanks for that tidbit. Where I am, I do and will be crossing creeks/streams when hunting or getting to camp.
There are drilled/slotted rotors for hi speed performance/track applications.
 

mmnorthdirections

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Do they no longer teach drivers to apply a bit of brake after driving through water? I remember that being part of diver's ed about 20 years ago.

At the slow speeds you will be driving while off road, brake fade isn't really an issue.

Sent via Pony Express and Carrier Pigeon.
Brake fade can be an issue while off road because of heat buildup. A rotor is vented to dissipate heat sink at speed.
Most of our modern rigs don't have extremely low range so a long steep down slope they could get quite hot.
Just my thoughts, and why I tend to replace pads and rotors more frequently as cheap insurance...
 

TreXTerra

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Modern rotors are already internally vented for heat dissipation, cutting holes, slots, or dimples in doesn't pull heat out of the steel, the increase in surface area is negigable, fractions of a percent. Heat sinks add material and surface area to radiate heat, and we are talking huge increases in surface area, sometimes as much as an order of magnitude. Take a look at a regulator/rectifier, about 80-90% of it is just heat sink and it doesn't get nearly as hot as brakes.

I also disagree with the gearing. In first gear low range with stock diffs, I can hang on the engine compression at about 2-4 mph on very steep slopes 30°-45°. My vehicle was built in 2006, and while not exactly new, it is certainly not vintage.

Dimples, holes, and slots create weak points in the rotor that will prematurely fail. Heat isn't as much of a problem as thermal shock. A hot brake being splashed with cold water is far more likely to crack than a blank vented rotor. Those weak points don't give you are real benefit in braking performance. There is a reason trackday cars are typically run with blank rotors today - to prevent rotor failure.

If your brakes are getting that hot, you need to shift down a gear. Even after long downhill sections brakes should be cool enough to touch. I remember coming down Pikes Peak back in the day, they had a brake check station half way down. If your brakes were hot they made you pull over until they cooled off. They checked by placing their hand near the rotor to feel for heat and then touching the rotor or drum if it was cool enough. If they could touch the brakes, you were allowed to continue.

Sent via Pony Express and Carrier Pigeon.
 
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nomad666

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I have lots of trouble with heat wobble and brake fade on my van its an automatic my first and last so I have to be on the brakes downhill at all times cuz of turns.
I will get a standered gear shift vehicle again as one just has to gear down and let the engine do the braking for you..

stick with OEM rotors and pads I have tried it all all no worky...
 

nomad666

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nope nadda it don't do diddly for me in 2nd or first. it still speeds up downhill just as bad as D and 3rd and revs get into the danger zone fast...
just to bad they don't make a mid sized 4x4 van anymore and in standered...