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2022 Silverado ZR2?

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tjZ06

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13" screen. Bwaaa hahahahha. What a blatantly ignorant device to add to a truck.
That's about the only thing they did right. Have you ever owned a vehicle with a nice 12+" screen? Our '19 RAM 1500 had it, and it was great. The screen could be divided into multiple different functions so you'd still have a nice big Nav display but still also have HVAC and/or stereo displays up. It was awesome, worked flawlessly and was very well executed. Necessary? Of course not. But I think it's silly to call it "blatantly ignorant" just because *you* don't understand the usefulness. Beside the actual functionality, Chevy has to try to keep pace with RAM and Ford, and the screen (and true front/rear lockers) is probably the ONLY place they actually did it with this truck.

-TJ
 
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While I am not a Doge fan, I'm not 100% sure you are right on this. The Hemi Wrangler had been long pined-after. Win.

And thier infotainment systems (U-Connect?) Is award winning. I can see why. We had a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (6 cyl) as a rental a couple weeks ago and the infotainment system in that thing blows my GMC'S away. Granted my truck is not new, but what they are doing on that front was fun. The offroad apps showing long/ lat position and so may other interesting choices.

Having said that, 4mpg is kind of stupid. I can get that just being heavy-footed with my 5.3
Oh, I know it's been screamed about for years. But in reality, it's not needed....at all. The v8 will still get terrible gas milage, and the power is not needed. Again, the whole hemi in a jeep, and hellcat in everything else is just a utensil measuring option. I owned a 2011 wrangler with the old 3.8. I was running 33s with 3.73 and it was fine for power. Not once did I say, I wish this had 3 times the HP. I towed my camper at 100kph, and it never hiccuped. The pentastar in my 2014 wrangler was great too. Again, not once did I say...I wish I had 2 times the power in this. The Hemi in the wrangler was a shot fired back at the bronco. That's why I say dodge/jeep have nothing left. IF thats all they do to counter the bronco, they are failing. The bronco is an awesome rig. The days of SFA being "better" are long gone. The bronco is better at 99 percent of things compared to a wrangler. You can even get it with 35;s from the showroom floor. It handles better on road, it's faster on fire roads, it can crawl just as well as the wrangler on the rocks. It's more comfortable inside with a much better updated interior. Jeep.....we got a hemi...
 

ThundahBeagle

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Oh, I know it's been screamed about for years. But in reality, it's not needed....at all. The v8 will still get terrible gas milage, and the power is not needed. Again, the whole hemi in a jeep, and hellcat in everything else is just a utensil measuring option. I owned a 2011 wrangler with the old 3.8. I was running 33s with 3.73 and it was fine for power. Not once did I say, I wish this had 3 times the HP. I towed my camper at 100kph, and it never hiccuped. The pentastar in my 2014 wrangler was great too. Again, not once did I say...I wish I had 2 times the power in this. The Hemi in the wrangler was a shot fired back at the bronco. That's why I say dodge/jeep have nothing left. IF thats all they do to counter the bronco, they are failing. The bronco is an awesome rig. The days of SFA being "better" are long gone. The bronco is better at 99 percent of things compared to a wrangler. You can even get it with 35;s from the showroom floor. It handles better on road, it's faster on fire roads, it can crawl just as well as the wrangler on the rocks. It's more comfortable inside with a much better updated interior. Jeep.....we got a hemi...
Ah, yes. Well, wants vs needs, ok.

So, you have a Bronco, or test drove one? Sounds like a great truck
 

MidOH

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Oh, I know it's been screamed about for years. But in reality, it's not needed....at all. The v8 will still get terrible gas milage, and the power is not needed. Again, the whole hemi in a jeep, and hellcat in everything else is just a utensil measuring option. I owned a 2011 wrangler with the old 3.8. I was running 33s with 3.73 and it was fine for power. Not once did I say, I wish this had 3 times the HP. I towed my camper at 100kph, and it never hiccuped. The pentastar in my 2014 wrangler was great too. Again, not once did I say...I wish I had 2 times the power in this. The Hemi in the wrangler was a shot fired back at the bronco. That's why I say dodge/jeep have nothing left. IF thats all they do to counter the bronco, they are failing. The bronco is an awesome rig. The days of SFA being "better" are long gone. The bronco is better at 99 percent of things compared to a wrangler. You can even get it with 35;s from the showroom floor. It handles better on road, it's faster on fire roads, it can crawl just as well as the wrangler on the rocks. It's more comfortable inside with a much better updated interior. Jeep.....we got a hemi...

The new Hemi has been long awaited because Jeep hasn't had a decent engine since the 4.0. Junkyards are filled with the new Jeep and Caravan engines. (The last generation Hemi's were junk as well)

I've been putting GM 383's in Jeeps since 93. They all had superior mileage after the swap. A 5.0 in a fullsize Ford F150 can get 19mpg. That's better than some smaller lighter Jeeps and Toyotas. My F250 6.2l fx4 has even returned 17mpg on multiple occasions. Big engines can be economical, they're always lightly loaded and never working hard. If I could get a Ford Ecoboost or GM LS in a Jeep Gladiator, I'd be all over it.

There's no excuse for the Hemi to still have cam and rocker issues. If those issues are gone, then that's the engine I'd want in the Gladiator.

The Bronco's ifs is an example of one. It's possible future success, does nothing to the time honored superiority of sfa's like the Dana 60. The Raptors success, comes at a price. Those joints aren't cheap and easy.

Wranglers are supposed to be sfa. That should never change. The Wrangler needs an adult styled interior. Rubicon axles and lockers on every single model stock. 35" tire option, on wheels not designed to look like snowflakes. A manual transmission available for every engine choice. And some hardcore reliable engines. There's still plenty that they can do to improve their vehicle. They need to watch the pricing as well. Competition is great for everyone.
 

AggieOE

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Save for the SSR, Z06, and the ZR2 Colorado, I can't think of another Chevrolet that's set a bar.
When I was younger and into the pocket rocket craze I drove an SVT Focus for a few years and then a Cobalt SS/SC for a few years and the Ford was so MUCH better quality $ for $. Forged motor, suspension, brakes, interior plastics, sound, etc. Even my dad's SSR with the LS2 squeaked and rattled and felt kinda cheap.
After college I had a Boss 302 and eventually test drove a Camaro 1LE and again, the Mustang felt SO much better quality-wise.

I say all that because this, again, leaves me feeling underwhelmed with Chevrolet as a whole, not disappointed per say but just... meh. And It could just be because of my previous experiences with Chevrolets and their lack of stepping up to the Jeep/4Runner/Bronco crowd with a real BOF SUV. I know the Silverado, Tahoe, and 5.3L V8 carry good weight in durability discussions but not much excitement ever.

I'm hopeful this is just a bigger ZR2 Colorado since it hit a good niche in the market that didn't exist. The front locker technically steps this up a notch over an FX4 Off-Road or a Rebel but, other than that, I feel like my reaction is, "well its about time you met the bar."
 
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tjZ06

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The new Hemi has been long awaited because Jeep hasn't had a decent engine since the 4.0. Junkyards are filled with the new Jeep and Caravan engines. (The last generation Hemi's were junk as well)
You crack me up man. The whole "minivan engine" thing was about the 3.8s in the early JKs. The 3.6 is no power-house, but it's been pretty damn reliable in '12+ JKs and JL/Ts. Especially with the 8spd in JL/Ts it's a decent setup. And the last gen Hemis were junk? We had a '06 Ram with the 5.7 Hemi (so, early Gen III Hemi you describe as junk) and it still ran great when we sold it with something like 140-150k miles and lots of towing abuse.

There's no excuse for the Hemi to still have cam and rocker issues. If those issues are gone, then that's the engine I'd want in the Gladiator.
The issues are pretty uncommon, when you consider the number of late Hemis out there. I have a '17 Trailhawk 5.7L Hemi and a '18 Trackhawk 6.2L Supercharged Hemi... both are fine.

Wranglers are supposed to be sfa. That should never change. The Wrangler needs an adult styled interior. Rubicon axles and lockers on every single model stock. 35" tire option, on wheels not designed to look like snowflakes. A manual transmission available for every engine choice. And some hardcore reliable engines. There's still plenty that they can do to improve their vehicle. They need to watch the pricing as well. Competition is great for everyone.
I feel like you're really disconnected from the ideas of margin, market pressure, etc. Almost all Wrangler buyers state the interior as a huge UPSIDE. What should be more "adult styled" in your opinion, what does that even mean? Rubicon axles and lockers in every model? Why? Have you wheeled a non-Rubi JL/T? They are plenty for 90%+ of buyers. I just went on a long trip with a buddy with a Gladiator Sport, it never let him/us down. Do you think people would like a ~$5k bump in MSRP across the board so they can have lockers on a Sport that they'll never use? Most of the current Jeep wheels are pretty attractive and again, buyers like them. What do you want to see in a wheel design? And do you think it even matters, since so many Jeep owners change wheels as their first mod anyway?

Reliable engines? Again, the 3.6 is super reliable, it's not the 3.8 you're thinking about. But, I DO agree it's not enough, and as much as the 392 Wrangler is super-cool it's too much for most. A 5.7 Hemi in the JL/T would be *perfect* for me, and many other buyers.

35"s are already an option. It's the Xtreme Recon package.

-TJ
 
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MazeVX

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So this is the story about how you go from a new Silverado trim level to "Superior Bronco" and "unreliable kiddy wrangler"

Don't get me wrong I like both posts and both are correct in their very own way and I like talking about jeeps but maybe we make up a new thread and discuss it there? ;-)
And oh yes the 5.7 hemi would be the right match for JK/JL and JT

Please don't take me to serious here...
 
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MidOH

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Well hopefully the new hemi's are good. My contact at the county garage just gave me a weird look, when I asked him to take my picture while sitting on a giant pyramid stack of crate hemi's. Until the huge inventory of engines is long gone at my fleet customers, I'll continue to doubt Dodge engines.

And the Ruby axles likely only cost Dodge $38 more than the base axles. If Jeep wants to steal the wind back from the Broncos, they should make every single Wrangler bad arse. Not just the Rubi versions. No reason they can't undercut the mid to upper Bronco's price tag at the same time.
 

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Ah, yes. Well, wants vs needs, ok.

So, you have a Bronco, or test drove one? Sounds like a great truck
I have owned 2 JK wranglers and put a metric shitton of miles on them. my 2011 had 300k (well 298) and my 2014 had 150k on it. I know what a wrangler is and how it drives. I test drove an outer banks model without sqatch package. The running gear would be comparable to my sports I owned. The bronco is a better vehicle in every way. It's more comfortable, better to drive in every situation I drove it in, The fit and finish was miles ahead of the jeep, it felt more roomy, the soft top was much higher quality (sound insulation) compared to my wranglers soft top, etc. It's just a better vehicle. I have owned numerous jeep and dodge products and my 2011 wrangler with the 3.8 was the most reliable. The least reliable was my 2014 wrangler. That was ALWAYS being fixed for stuff. Electrical, heat, ac, engine noises, leaking roof, etc. My 2011 never had any of that. It developed a main seal leak at 298k and I was told it was an expensive job to fix. So I unloaded it, come to find out, it was like 1500 bucks labour included. The mechanic I used at the time did not want to do the job and quoted me like 5k. I would still ahve that jeep as I had it built fully for what I was using it for.

That being said, the bronco out Jeeps' the jeep in every situation.
 
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ThundahBeagle

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Save for the SSR, Z06, and the ZR2 Colorado, I can't think of another Chevrolet that's set a bar...

...I'm hopeful this is just a bigger ZR2 Colorado since it hit a good niche in the market that didn't exist. The front locker technically steps this up a notch over an FX4 Off-Road or a Rebel but, other than that, I feel like my reaction is, "well its about time you met the bar."
Wait a minute...did you just say that the SSR set a bar? Sorry. I can not agree with you on that one. SSR?

I think the GMT400 truck platform certainly set a bar for design, and that's modern history, and was a design change well before Ford made thiers.

The original Chevy Blazer hit a bar so high, that it took 8 years for Ford to see the light, quit making Jeep CJ-like Broncos, and start patterning the Bronco off of the Blazer model. To this day, when I think Bronco, I dont think about the original. I think 1978-1996, truck platform, which was GM's idea. They knew they wouldnt beat Jeep or Bronco at that game so they stepped it up and made a nicer game.

I guess that 1968 'Vette has nothing on the Mustangs of the same year, or even the Mustang II, which ran concurrently with that model Corvette.

How about the Suburban. Longest manufactured, if not one of the longest, trucks of all time, in terms of model years. Started in the 30's I think. Ford didnt have an appropriate answer to that until the late 1990's Excursion, I beleive. And that sold nowhere near the numbers the Suburban sold. Ever.

No bars, though. Except that SSR you mentioned for some reason. Personally I just couldnt by into the SSR or the HHR.
 
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AggieOE

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Wait a minute...did you just say that the SSR set a bar? Sorry. I can not agree with you on that one. SSR?

I think the GMT400 truck platform certainly set a bar for design, and that's modern history, and was a design change well before Ford made thiers.

The original Chevy Blazer hit a bar so high, that it took 8 years for Ford to see the light, quit making Jeep CJ-like Broncos, and start patterning the Bronco off of the Blazer model. To this day, when I think Bronco, I dont think about the original. I think 1978-1996, truck platform, which was GM's idea. They knew they wouldnt beat Jeep or Bronco at that game so they stepped it up and made a nicer game.

I guess that 1968 'Vette has nothing on the Mustangs of the same year, or even the Mustang II, which ran concurrently with that model Corvette.

How about the Suburban. Longest manufactured, if not one of the longest, trucks of all time, in terms of model years. Started in the 30's I think. Ford didnt have an appropriate answer to that until the late 1990's Excursion, I beleive. And that sold nowhere near the numbers the Suburban sold. Ever.

No bars, though. Except that SSR you mentioned for some reason. Personally I just couldnt by into the SSR or the HHR.
Easy, I use "bar" quite loosely as it can be considered quite subjective. It was unique, different, and unlike anything else out there (HHR relates more to the Aztek). Good points on the Suburban though! I do love me some old ones. I don't agree with the Blazer comment but can't make much of an argument though as I was not around then and have not ever pried into its history. It seems more so that Chevy came in late (with a good K5 platform) and Ford began taming their concept of a Bronco, first with a Ranger, then with an F150. Corvette wise, yes it was (and is) leagues above anything else out there but Ford never tried to match it, especially with a Mustang or the Ford GT. Camaro is the better apples to apples comparison.

The Silverado ZR2 looks sweet though and the more I think about it, that front locker ought to make a large impact on the market. I'm curious how the other brands will follow.
The real question is how many Trail Bosses are going up for sale or trade for one of these.
 
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ThundahBeagle

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Easy, I use "bar" quite loosely as it can be considered quite subjective. It was unique, different, and unlike anything else out there (HHR relates more to the Aztek). Good points on the Suburban though! I do love me some old ones. I don't agree with the Blazer comment but can't make much of an argument though as I was not around then and have not ever pried into its history. It seems more so that Chevy came in late (with a good K5 platform) and Ford began taming their concept of a Bronco, first with a Ranger, then with an F150. Corvette wise, yes it was (and is) leagues above anything else out there but Ford never tried to match it, especially with a Mustang or the Ford GT. Camaro is the better apples to apples comparison.

The Silverado ZR2 looks sweet though and the more I think about it, that front locker ought to make a large impact on the market. I'm curious how the other brands will follow.
The real question is how many Trail Bosses are going up for sale or trade for one of these.
The chevy Blazer history is an interesting one. Obviously Jeep had been Jeep since 1941. Then you had the IH Scout, and the Ford Bronco, all with small, Jeep-like offerings. Chevy had nothing of the sort.

But they saw an untapped market. Jeep, Scout, Bronco, were all trail riding, rock crawlers and each were a unique platform within their mark. Chevy decided they wouldnt win at the game - the market was saturated. They took a tried and true platform -thier single cab short bed pickup truck - added a fiberglass top, peeled down the bulkhead, and added a small bench seat. Easiest R&D since, forever.

The Blazer was not designed for the same trails Jeep and G1 Broncos were. It was designed as the family campmobile. The workers truck that could be covered and locked. Some of the earliest advertisements for Blazer were of a family having rode down some desert trail or two-track somewhere, with a big camping spread all set up. Kind of the first overlander, as opposed to rock crawler.
 

ThundahBeagle

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^^^ sort of different purposes, and the Chevy could haul more and was far more comfortable. And for a truck platform, it was kind of short.